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Author Topic: Better use for Cool characteristic
212019156
High-Powered Superhero
Posts: 83
Post Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 19, 2011, 23:04

Jeff

You are talking about using the Cool score for initiative because you wanted to make it more valuable I think. I think of better ways to make Cool more valuable.

1) Your ability to put forth extra effort/ try harder. This would allow you to push your normal abilities a bit to be able to lift more, do more damage, jump farther, run faster depending on a cool save.

2) Use cool as a mental defense.

3) use cool to possibly ignore certain damage affects.

4) Use cool as a sort of intimidation skill.

5) Cool could reflect how much discipline you have which in turn affects how well you are able to train to improve your character.

Those sorts of things seem like a better use of a "Cool" score than initiative. Agility seems like a much better stat to use for initiative.

Dracos
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 699
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 21, 2011, 22:38

But then you wouldn't have a need for the "Power" of Willpower A

212019156
High-Powered Superhero
Posts: 83
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 22, 2011, 08:49

Hmmm. Why wouldn't you just have a heightened Cool power, just like you have a Heightened str, Int, Agi, and end?

Dracos
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 699
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 23, 2011, 21:39

Wouldn't say it to be an impossibility

But I think if you go down this road, due it's overall game effect, you run a very real risk of Cool becoming the new Agility. That is definitely not something anyone wants. The one of the goals for 3.0 is to insure each stat is of equal importance to the game

212019156
High-Powered Superhero
Posts: 83
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 23, 2011, 22:43

This was posted regarding one of Jeff's post where he stated that he wanted to add value to the Cool ability by having it be the trait used for initiative. I just think its a bit weird having Cool be used for Initiative rather than Agility. As I stated I think there are plenty of possible uses for Cool other than Initiative. Also keep in mind that I as not implying my list of possible uses as absolute. They are just possible uses.

Dracos
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 699
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 24, 2011, 15:56

Oh I think keeping your "Cool" as the battle rages about you is very appropriate as an Initiative modifier. In the old west there are a multitude of recorded events where it wasn't the fastest gun but the man who kept his "Cool" and was able to get off an effective shot that was the one to walk away. I have to agree with Majestic and some others however. It would seem a more (god I hate this phrase) realistic simulation if maybe Initiative was the result of averaging Cool and Agility as opposed to one lone stat being determinate.

Rock On

212019156
High-Powered Superhero
Posts: 83
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 24, 2011, 20:12

Agreed. I think initiative could be based on more than one stat. Who goes first in battle is a combination of things. Your intelligence allows you to use tactics to place your self in a position to go first. Your intuition and perception all you to perceive when something is about to happen. Your reflexes determine how quickly you can react to your perceptions. It also be could be argued that perhaps how fast your muscles can contract affects the speed of your movement as well.

Does a cool ability comprise all of that? I don't know. When I think of cool I equate it more with strength of mind.

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1176
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 25, 2011, 13:31

I suspect that a lot of the hesitation about using Cool for initiative comes from prior expectations based on the way things work in V&V 2.1. Keep in mind is that in 2.1, Heightened Speed and having a high Agility score are pretty much the same thing, as far as initiative is concerned. In 3.0, having a high attribute score - whether it's Agility or Cool - will not give a character extra actions. It will ONLY affect who gets to act first. Heightened Speed will still give a character extra actions in 3.0, AND increased initiative, again regardless of whether initiative is based off of Agility or Cool.

-Jeff

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 25, 2011, 13:58

Here's a crazy thought. I was thinking about what 212 said (about how cool, agility, and even intelligence could make sense on giving somebody the higher initiative). Then it occurred to me that maybe all of these things could factor in. Not an average of all of the stats, but in V&V we already have a statistic that is a compilation of all of these things: the Power score. Well, everything except Cool (unless Cool is factored in to one's Power stat as well).

If you think about it, a person who is really fatigued (or just low on Power because they've been exerting themselves for a long time) will tend to react more slowly than somebody who is "fresh" and at full Power. I've been watching a lot of the NBA playoffs lately, and doing so one is continually reminded - with even these elite atheletes - how it's necessary to give them relief (subbing in a new player) after they've been exerting for awhile. Often you'll see them (again, top-conditioned atheletes) bent over, hands on their knees, catching their breath.

Just a crazy idea to throw into the mix... 🙂

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

calebhero
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 418
Post Re: Better use for Cool characteristic
on: May 25, 2011, 14:45

I am completely changed on this subject. Before Texicon I was unsure about the change but anything
to reduce the heavy reliance on Agility was welcome. I also trusted Jeff and Jack. V&V is a game of
beauty and they have gained a lot of learning from trying the V&V upgrade, Living Legends, and
engaging the players on forums. I have seen things we have suggested show up in V&V 3.0.

I understand the reaction to the word Cool. It is a word with 25 definitions in Dictionary.com

After Texicon I know exactly what Cool means. It means calmness; composure; poise: Cyclops is noted
for maintaining his cool under pressure.

To use a sport example, Jason Kidd and Dirk Nowitzki are not more agile than any of the Thunder's stars
but there are multiple times they are first to the spot they want and get first action. Their poise
under pressure is amazing.

I really think that is the effect that V&V 3.0 is after. After playing the demo, I believe it works.
There are other changes that Jeff has not posted. How "To Hit" and Multi-Attack works keeps your
Agility based character effective and dangerous. You won't feel the change destroyed your character.

If you were a player that used Charisma as a dump stat and always took Reduced Charisma. You will have
to change your character and not do a straight conversion because Jeff really did achieve the goal of
all BC being desirable.

After the Demo, I am completely sold.

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