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Author Topic: Gods in V&V
R_Mortisse
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 484
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 10, 2013, 13:53

I've read this over from the beginning... (I find all of the information presented highly relevant to my '1-of-12' adventure project. Which deals specifically with 'elder god' types trapped in another dimension. influencing humanity)... and, I find... (discussions of quantum dimensional theoretics aside)... that there is very little that actually affects gameplay. Well, 'directly', anyways.

I understand that you are essentially 'field-testing' the background material. But, I don't see where any 'logic incongruities' might prevent these ideas from taking hold. As, we have to 'suspend disbelief' quite a bit anyways, to be able to thoroughly enjoy the idea of 'superheroics', to begin with.

My point is this, even if someone could point out a flaw in this idea... its just background material. As GMs we ALL tend to add and discard whatever fits out tastes anyways. (The Galactor/Spectra exist in MY gaming universe. Zairob does not.)

Frankly, I like your idea. But, I THINK it might be a bit 'too constrictive'... for SOME scenarios. For instance, in my adventure there are indeed 'alternate dimensions'. (Grouped together by the commonalities of the physical laws, and the most accessible means to gain entry into them. Ie.- There are magical dimensions, sub-dimensions, hyperspace, parallel dimensions, divergent dimensions, and alien dimensions.) Each with it's own set of rules and 'FLAVORING'. These rules between my dimensions tend to VARY greatly,... BY dimension. (The physical laws of my Asgard are drastically different from the sub-dimension I call 'the Blue'. A sub-dimension where 'physicality' in the universe never came to be, but 'consciousness' does exist.) I think that by setting an 'overall' guideline for ... um... 'dimensional behaviour' you might be cheating yourself of some of the versatility availalble for 'the creation of 'game settings'. (Lets be honest, whether its a new dimension, another planet, or another era in time... it all means the same thing for us GMS. Its a 'different setting'.)

Still I think you have the fundamentals of a great idea on how magic might work. (By casting a duplication spell... I would not be manipulating universal energies to 'assemble' a duplicate of someone out of ambient atoms. I would instead be manipulating them to cause a 'temporal stutter'... which would last long enough to cause another (perpetual) 'instance' of that being. In my mind, THAT sounds more like HOW magic should work.

That works for me.

But, it might not work for everyone. I suppose it would be specifically dependent on how greatly 'overriding' elements of my adventure, were impacted by these ideas. (Say, that Christians who were killed in battle could not just 'show up' in Valhalla, because my scenario was very specific about who could and who could not get into Valhalla, to limit my PC group in some way.)

From reading your very first post, two other questions present themselves to me...
1)Is the actual 'kingdom of Heaven', an intended game setting in the V&V universe. (I cant stop my players from starting a heated gunbattle in the middle of the Vatican. I can only guess what would happen if they were somehow put in front of HIM and the Archangels.)
and
2)Are you also stating that the existence of gods (including HIM) and demons (including 'mih') and their respective realms, is considered to be a 'SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN' fact, in the official V&V universe? (Thor has been a staple of the Marvel universe for decades. People like Reed Richards and Dr. Strange *HAVE* to acknowledge their existence and the existence of the universes they come from. Because the proof is NOT empirical... its standing right in front of them. But, by and large, most scientists in the Marvel universe do not believe in 'other dimensions' and 'godhood'. (Or even 'aliens', for that matter.) If anything, they probably still view them in much the same light that the 'common man 'does... as 'unknowable truths'. A general disposition that serves ALL readers, by accommodating ALL of their personal viewpoints, by specifically being vague.) Are you sure that your approach is the best approach to take, regarding this subject matter?

Other than that, I don't see anything wrong with your idea. (In fact, i'd even add, that it goes quite a ways to explain how PC superheroes never seem to 'really' die, somewhat.)

R_Mortisse
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 484
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 10, 2013, 14:42

I truly apologize to everyone, if I'm taking up too much space. OR, am not making myself clear.

But, I want to ask the same question in a different way...

"In '1-of-12' it is a GIVEN staple of my scenario that there are 'mystic' and 'sub' dimensions. One such dimension is what I call the 'Throne'. (It has no other name. As, tho it once teemed with life... 'GODS'... they had a war that wiped out all of the native life. Now it is completely empty. When the gods were alive there, it was a 'mystic' dimension. Governed by their rules and protected by their machinations. But, when they all died, the universe became inert. Now, instead, acting as more of a 'sub' dimension. The throne does not exist physically in our universe. And, (to the best of EVERYONE'S knowledge) there is no way to gain entry into it. (Additionally, it should be mentioned that aside from a RARE FEW mystics, almost no one knows or members that it even exists.)
The throne exists 'parallel' to the physical universe. The stated understanding is that the 'life urge' of the universe (from the Big Bang) funnels through the throne into the universe. This force is ONE of the components that gives rise to existance, in the regular universe. But, not the only one. And, by (pardon the pun) sitting in the Throne one can, by virtue or manipulating this 'life urge' force, therefore 'affect' the entirety of the physical universe. (By abstentia.)"

Some of the ideas presented above could be construed as 'universe defining' restrictions. (But, such was not my intent.) Instead, I was attempting to build a 'mechanic' for my background, that established the 'McGuffin' of my plot. Mu intention wasn't to rewrite the 'rules' of the entire universe. It was just to set up the framework for a specific 'circumstance' within it.

1)Does anything I have stated conflict with this new 'official' V&V universe policy?
2)And, if so, does this mean my scenario would 'violate' any policy with MHG, that might get it refused?

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1095
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 11, 2013, 00:17

Quote from R_Mortisse on November 10, 2013, 14:42

I understand that you are essentially 'field-testing' the background material.

We're describing the way it is, actually.

1)Is the actual 'kingdom of Heaven', an intended game setting in the V&V universe. (I cant stop my players from starting a heated gunbattle in the middle of the Vatican. I can only guess what would happen if they were somehow put in front of HIM and the Archangels.)

As previously stated:

"In the V&V Universe, practically every pantheon from every religion that ever existed links up to a real entity (or group of entities). For the most part, they conform to the outline I presented in the first post on this thread: they're powerful extra-dimensional beings, whose interest in what goes on on Earth is connected with the way that events here influence events on their home plane."

2)Are you also stating that the existence of gods (including HIM) and demons (including 'mih') and their respective realms, is considered to be a 'SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN' fact, in the official V&V universe?

Sort of... in the same sense that the Standard Model of quantum physics is 'scientifically proven' in the real world. That doesn't mean there isn't still plenty of debate about it. In the real world, testing anything at the cutting edge of physics is expensive and difficult. The same goes for the V&V universe.

1)Does anything I have stated conflict with this new 'official' V&V universe policy?

It's really, really difficult to conflict the V&V multiverse as described. Pretty much any dimension you can imagine, can exist. To conflict with this, you'd have to say stuff like "only dimensions X Y and Z exist", or "most so-called gods have a different explanation".

2)And, if so, does this mean my scenario would 'violate' any policy with MHG, that might get it refused?

If you're thinking of submitting an adventure to MHG, we strongly recommend that you start by sending us a short synopsis so we can look it over, ask you questions, and figure out whether we'd need you to make any changes.

-Jeff

Dracos
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 697
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 11, 2013, 21:46

I am curious if Jeff or Jack has given much thought on how to represent a "god" using the V&V rule system. I don't necessarily mean a particular god's special sphere of influence i.e, Ra's Sun Powers, but what would be the basic characteristics and abilities of a "generic" Olympian, Asgardian, Celestial Being or however one might want to describe a being of such power?

R_Mortisse
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 484
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 12, 2013, 21:44

@Jeff,
Ah, I see. Well, it was just my misinterpretation. But, I like the idea and am glad you guys know what you want in the book. (As I said before, I like the idea.)

Thanks for the quick reply and the input. I'm still puttering around with my '1-of-12' idea. (Which is technically a LL idea, and not specifically a V&V product. I don't suppose that changes anything. Does it?)

Also, I second Dracos' idea. One of my favorite aspects of LL was the pregen alien/species profiles in the character generation section. Having pregenned god templates would be very useful.

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1095
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 13, 2013, 08:41

Quote from Dracos on November 11, 2013, 21:46
I am curious if Jeff or Jack has given much thought on how to represent a "god" using the V&V rule system. I don't necessarily mean a particular god's special sphere of influence i.e, Ra's Sun Powers, but what would be the basic characteristics and abilities of a "generic" Olympian, Asgardian, Celestial Being or however one might want to describe a being of such power?

This will be a lot easier to answer once V&V3 is out: it'll have 'power level' guidelines built in. For now, I'd say anything that's powerful enough to astonish your players is powerful enough to claim it's a god 🙂

-Jeff

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1095
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 13, 2013, 08:42

Quote from R_Mortisse on November 12, 2013, 21:44
technically a LL idea, and not specifically a V&V product. I don't suppose that changes anything. Does it?

Nope 🙂

-Jeff

Dracos
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 697
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 13, 2013, 10:20

Lol. Thanks Jeff

Believe me I'll be one of the first jumping at V&V3 when you guys are ready to put it in book print form. I really was jazzed by the customization of powers and character generation methods based on the campaign flavor/power level the GM was looking to work with. Perfect concept to use for creating god level characters.

Thanks again
John

R_Mortisse
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 484
Post Re: Gods in V&V
on: November 13, 2013, 22:50

Quote from Dracos on November 13, 2013, 10:20
Believe me I'll be one of the first jumping at V&V3 when you guys are ready to put it in book print form.

("But, you'll have to beat me to it, if you want a copy!... Or, you'll have to fight me for it!!... And, I BITE!... NO WAIT, thats not what I meant!!!! *GROAN*")

{;-)

Sounds like you guys really have it 'coming along', Jeff. Can't wait to see it!!

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