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Author Topic: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: June 19, 2017, 16:03

I'm wondering if it's fair to apply the full price/cost of Modifiers, when they only affect part (say, half) of a particular Ability?

For instance, the Power Requirement: Increased PR Modifier when it only applies to one facet of Lightning Control?

Likewise the Area Effect Modifier, when it only affects one of two attacks?

I'm converting a 2.1 character who has Lightning Control: A) Electrical Bolt at the standard PR=4, but he has the option of being able to channel the electricity into an area attack (10" radius), affecting everybody in that circle, for PR=8.

So when I build the character, do I charge the full +22.5 for the Area Effect? Do I give the full -5 Modifier for Increased PR, being as only some of his attacks (only the radius attack that hits all targets) costs 8 instead of 4?

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1176
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: June 20, 2017, 02:16

That's one of the things we intentionally didn't put in, in the interest of keeping the point construction as simple.

GMs are, of course, free to adjust costs as they see fit. But remember, if you give the character one ability with two functions, and you make one of those two functions 'better' by giving it a discounted cost on one of its Modifiers, the net result may be that the character will gravitate toward only or mainly using that one function. And then it would *really* be like you just gave them that Modifier for cheap.

I'd build this character with separate "Electrical Bolt" and "Electrical Bolt + Area" abilities, as a Multi-Ability, with each ability paying full price for its Modifiers.

-Jeff

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: June 20, 2017, 12:07

I was kind of thinking the same thing, and - though I considered doing a Miscellaneous modifier to allow for it - after working with the player, we decided against it. I felt just like what you said, that the modifier was too cheap in the end, and wouldn't really be fairly balanced.

I totally agree that splitting things up like this makes things simply way too complex; in this case, I was trying to make it fit only because I was modeling something for an existing character. But, being only 3rd level, it's not like that character is an iconic, long-played one that didn't have some wiggle room.

We ended up simplifying the character a bit. One of his two Background rolls in "old-timey V&V" (as Jeff calls 2.1) was Inheritor, and we even ditched the 10 CP Wealth the character was entitled to (it has never come up in play so far), in order to build up his Shield (parrying ability of his magical sword).

I feel we've kept the essence of the character, while still remaining within the total points he's built on.

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Alienist
Street-Level Hero
Posts: 22
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: June 21, 2017, 16:42

Quote from Jeff on June 20, 2017, 02:16
I'd build this character with separate "Electrical Bolt" and "Electrical Bolt + Area" abilities, as a Multi-Ability, with each ability paying full price for its Modifiers.
-Jeff

The problem I see with doing it that way, which is really more of an issue with Multi-Ability pricing in general, is you end up with situations like the following:

Option A (30 CP)
1. Electrical Bolt 2d12 (20 CP), Area of Effect 9" (+15), PR=8 (-5)

Option B (30 CP)
1. Electrical Bolt 2d12 (20 CP), Area of Effect 9" (+15), PR=8 (-5), Multi-Ability (-10)
2. Electrical Bolt 2d12 (20 CP), Multi-Ability (-10)

Unless I'm misreading how Multi-Ability works Option B basically gets one additional Ability for free.

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1176
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: June 22, 2017, 00:58

Good catch, Alienist!

I'm adding this:

The final, total CP cost of all the abilities in the set must be more than any individual ability in the set cost before its Multi-Ability cost adjustment was applied.

-Jeff

wistling
High-Powered Superhero
Posts: 56
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: June 22, 2017, 18:25

Jeff, I am not sure what the new text means - having problems understanding it. Could you reword or provide an example? Thank you.

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1176
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: June 23, 2017, 00:38

It means that if the most expensive Ability in a Multi-Ability cost (X) CPs before applying the Multi-Ability cost adjustment, then the *total* cost of all of the Abilities in the Multi-Ability *after* applying their Multi-Ability cost adjustments must be greater than (X).

So *this* is legal, where the Option B that Alienist posted wouldn't be:
1. Electrical Bolt 2d12 (20 CP), Area of Effect 9" (+15), PR=8 (-5), Multi-Ability (-10) [(30) CPs before the Multi-Ability cost adjustment]
2. Electrical Bolt 2d8+d10 (25 CP), Multi-Ability (-10) [(25) CPs before the Multi-Ability cost adjustment]
Total CP Cost: (35)

-Jeff

Paragon
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 130
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: June 23, 2017, 09:06

Shouldn't there be minimum based on the number of multiple abilities? Otherwise you still could possibly (I haven't looked at the numbers enough to know if this is actually possible) a situation where after you've got two, any more are free.

techogre
Superhero
Posts: 41
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: July 9, 2017, 09:23

Maybe put some hard numbers like the minimum cost is the most expensive power before the multi ability modifers plus 20% of the cost of the other abilities before the multiability modifiers. So if the most expensive power is 30cp and the total of the remaining powers is 50cp the total minimum cost is 40cp.

techogre
Superhero
Posts: 41
Post Re: Full Cost of Modifiers, when only 1/2 of the Ability is Affected?
on: July 9, 2017, 09:28

Maybe make that 10%.

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