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Author Topic: Contact Attack
Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3176
Post Contact Attack
on: April 22, 2017, 01:39

I may have sent this in earlier comments to Jeff, but this came up during our character creation time tonight, and was discussed by our group, and all of us feel this could be an issue.

The Contact Attack modifier for some reason ignores the Damage Cap. So one of my players has built a PC (modeled on World of Warcraft's Death Knight) who has a base 19 to hit with a two-handed axe. He hits (on average) for 14.5 damage, and then he does a Siphen attack (on contact, which automatically hits when the primary does) for 9, which he absorbs to his own Hit Points.

So this easily-built Standard power level character will hit most of the time, doing an average of 24 points of damage, absorbing about 9 Hit Points of damage back into himself!

Wondering how doing 24 points of damage, on a character built with a damage cap of 15, isn't abusive?

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1149
Post Re: Contact Attack
on: April 22, 2017, 11:38

There *is* a problem with Carried and Contact attacks as written, which is that fundamentally they're a way to strike twice with only one roll to hit. So they should be *significantly* more expensive than 2-shot Autofire at (+7.5) CPs, and they're not.

It looks like I tried to address this by fiddling with the damage cap calculation, instead of the *correct* way, which would be to make both Carried and Contact attacks cost a lot more. So:

BOTH Carried and Contact attacks now have a cost adjustment of (+15)*, and in *neither* case do you add up their damage when checking the damage cap. Note that you don't do that for Autofire, either; the damage cap is a limit on how much damage you can deal per separate damage roll period.

-Jeff

*Actually, for a Carried Attack, it'll be (+7.5) *each* on both the main attack and the Carried attack.

Paragon
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 129
Post Re: Contact Attack
on: April 22, 2017, 11:58

That's probably sensible. Its notable that one of the most abusing constructs in Mutants and Masterminds uses linked damage to sidestep the power level cap, and its always ugly.

There obviously should be a difference between the two (since going against potential defenses twice is weaker than doing it once) though; so I'm not sure they should have the same cost adjustment.

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1149
Post Re: Contact Attack
on: April 22, 2017, 12:02

Yeah, it should be the same. A carried attack gets to ignore mundane armor, but it only has any effect *at all* if the main attack does at least 1 hit point of damage (or the save against it fails). It's a trade-off, and therefor a wash.

-Jeff

GiantGoril-
la
Street-Level Hero
Posts: 17
Post Re: Contact Attack
on: April 22, 2017, 12:50

This illustrates how the prerelease feedback is making the rules even better.
This game is gonna be awesome.

I was into Charisma before it was Cool.

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3176
Post Re: Contact Attack
on: April 22, 2017, 17:35

Agreed. I think catching stuff like this will make things even more streamlined and efficient.

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Paragon
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 129
Post Re: Contact Attack
on: April 22, 2017, 22:38

Quote from Jeff on April 22, 2017, 12:02
Yeah, it should be the same. A carried attack gets to ignore mundane armor, but it only has any effect *at all* if the main attack does at least 1 hit point of damage (or the save against it fails). It's a trade-off, and therefor a wash.

-Jeff

It's hard for me to tell if its that hard; after all, if the basic attack can be full power (not the actual Carried part, but the attack its attached to) does, say, 2D12 (20 points of Lightning Control - Electrical Blast), and the default value for 20 point Armor is about 3 points taken off. That means you need to be able to roll with 10 points to stop that, which I'm not thinking most characters can.

Maybe there's something I'm missing.

wistling
High-Powered Superhero
Posts: 56
Post Re: Contact Attack
on: April 23, 2017, 11:10

Perhaps look at the power of Ability Field as well, since those (e.g. Flame Aura) are similar to Contact Attacks?

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