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Author Topic: 2.9 General Questions
bkadams
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 472
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 15, 2017, 12:35

Quote from Majestic on April 14, 2017, 13:29
On the Range chart (modifier on p. 100), shouldn't the modifier for doing things at a rate equal to one's BC be 0? So if I want to change the range for a Magnetic Blast to be equal to my character's Strength (which the default does), I get a modifier of -2.5? What if I want to make my Power Blast (ordinarily the average of ST and EN equal to only my ST (because it's higher), that gives me a modifier of -2.5?

I've always treated the Range modifier on a sliding scale, since abilities vary in how their ranges are calculated. For example, Power Blast has a range of (ST+EN)/2 -- which is effectively BCx1 -- so I treat it's base range as BCx1 on the range modifier table. Grapnel's base range is ST+AG, which for purposes of the range modifier, I treat as BCx2.

Lets say I want to reduce my character's Power Blast by one level on the range chart. Since I am treating it as BCx1 the next lower level is BC/2, which gives me a (-2.5) CP modifier and a range of ((ST+EN)/2)/2.

Remember to send email to jeff@monkeyhousegames.com for any of these situations that you think need to be clarified in the rules.

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 15, 2017, 15:42

Quote from Alienist on April 14, 2017, 17:26

Quote from Majestic on April 14, 2017, 13:29
On the Range chart (modifier on p. 100), shouldn't the modifier for doing things at a rate equal to one's BC be 0? So if I want to change the range for a Magnetic Blast to be equal to my character's Strength (which the default does), I get a modifier of -2.5? What if I want to make my Power Blast (ordinarily the average of ST and EN equal to only my ST (because it's higher), that gives me a modifier of -2.5?

I would assume that, given that the CP cost on the chart isn't accurate for many powers, in those cases you would follow the text instead and move 1 step up or down on the range table for +/- 2.5 CPs.

Quote from bkadams on April 15, 2017, 12:35

Quote from Majestic on April 14, 2017, 13:29
On the Range chart (modifier on p. 100), shouldn't the modifier for doing things at a rate equal to one's BC be 0? So if I want to change the range for a Magnetic Blast to be equal to my character's Strength (which the default does), I get a modifier of -2.5? What if I want to make my Power Blast (ordinarily the average of ST and EN equal to only my ST (because it's higher), that gives me a modifier of -2.5?

I've always treated the Range modifier on a sliding scale, since abilities vary in how their ranges are calculated. For example, Power Blast has a range of (ST+EN)/2 -- which is effectively BCx1 -- so I treat it's base range as BCx1 on the range modifier table. Grapnel's base range is ST+AG, which for purposes of the range modifier, I treat as BCx2.

Lets say I want to reduce my character's Power Blast by one level on the range chart. Since I am treating it as BCx1 the next lower level is BC/2, which gives me a (-2.5) CP modifier and a range of ((ST+EN)/2)/2.

Remember to send email to jeff@monkeyhousegames.com for any of these situations that you think need to be clarified in the rules.

I guess that could be a simple answer, to find the one that's closest, then move up or down the range chart to make things cost more (or less).

I do think that could be spelled out clearer, so I'll include it in my latest bath of corrections to Jeff.

Thanks, guys!

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 15, 2017, 15:45

Quote from bkadams on April 15, 2017, 12:19

Quote from Majestic on April 12, 2017, 12:50

Quote from Alienist on April 11, 2017, 18:25

Quote from Majestic on April 11, 2017, 15:26
I'm not clear on one thing with regard to Heightened Senses: what does it cost to keep them the same sense level, but to add more things that a particular sense detects?

For example, my old PC Majestic has (built into his Armor) some Heightened Senses. His HUD (heads-up display) gives him infrared vision and sonar. I get how to add the modifiers for 'Ranged Sense' and 'Global Sense', but - if I make it so he can sense each of these at Full (which is the default normal level) - and since they all give him the details and data visually, isn't there some cost to add the fact that he can now (in addition to the normal visual stimuli) detect the following?

- Light, Infrared
- Motion
- Shapes
-Sound, Subsonic
-Sounds, Ultrasonic

Surely there's some cost to adding five more things he can detect with his vision?

If i'm reading Heightened Senses correctly, each type of detection listed is purchased individually without consideration to any similar senses you may possess.

Well, if that's the case (and I don't see where it actually says that), Heightened Senses like the one my character Majestic has would have become exponentially expensive.

Let me explain.

In 2.1, he has an ordinary "Heightened Senses". He has a heads-up display, as well as sonar and infrared vision. It gives a bonus to his detect scores when applicable.

About 5 years ago, I went to Gary Con where Jeff was going to run a 3.0 adventure, and he converted PCs for the two of us that were going. Jeff wasn't able to make it, but he'd still converted my PC Majestic. Of course, this is a much earlier iteration of the rules, but the basics are still the same. Many of the powers and BCs worked out exactly the same or very close. His Heightened Senses? Jeff wrote those as:

HEIGHTENED SENSES: 360 Degree Full Sonar, Full Infrared Vision.

For cost, he made it 15 CP.

Now I've converted the character using the 2.9 rules, and I have everything but the Heightened Senses figured out. I have the maximum for a character of his power level (57 points) allocated, but I'm not sure if even 57 points will be able to cover the three basic things I need his visual senses to do.

Per Jeff, Heightened senses are bought from scratch.

Ht. Sense: Full Sonar (10), Range (+5), Global (+10) = 25 CPs
Ht. Sense: Full Infrared (10), Range (+5) = 15 CPs

Ouch, then Heightened Senses are indeed going to be much more expensive (than they were initially, as well as vastly much more than they ever were in earlier editions of the game). That's kind of what it looked like to me, so thanks, bk.

If I'm counting correctly, there are now 21 Senses listed. Does anybody else come up with a different number?

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 15, 2017, 15:48

Quote from bkadams on April 15, 2017, 12:24

Quote from Majestic on April 14, 2017, 17:45
I'm wondering what to do when - after consulting one of the tables - you are looking for a number that is exactly between two numbers shown. For example, I'm converting my PC Compass from 2.1 to 3.0 now.

His weight is 180, so per the instructions on Weight and Mass (2.2.9, p. 19) we go to the BC Table (p. 18), divide that weight by 2 (90 lbs.) and find the "closest match".

So which is closer? 60 lbs.(30 lbs. less)? or 120 (30 lbs. more)?

Depending on which one you go with, his Mass will either be d4 or d6.

I think it would be really helpful to have guidelines in general on what to do with all cases where one is rounding off. D&D 5th Edition, for example, always rounds down. Spelling out that folks should always round up, or to the nearest whole number, or .5 rounds up, or whatever you decide to do, will help clarify when those situations come up.

The official VnV3 excel sheet treats a 180 pound character as having a d4 Mass roll, so I guess you go with the higher number in cases where it is equally close.

Well, in this case it would be the lower number (the higher one would be the d6).

And FWIW, I'm sending everything to Jeff already, bk.

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 16, 2017, 01:19

So I was thinking about some of these Abilities that I will be doubling up (with converted characters), like two for Majestic (his natural augmented strength, and then the Heightened Strength he gets from his armor, for example), and it occurred to me that this would be a way around the cap on Abilities, wouldn't it?

I was at first thinking that - as expensive as his Heightened Senses are going to be, there isn't a way I'll be able to convert what he could do in 2.1 over to 3.0, I don't think. I've freed up some points as I've fine-tuned him, and I have 60 some points available now, but the cap for where he's at on the chart caps him at something like 57.

But then I remembered that he's got Heightened Senses built into his armor, and then he has some (limited) Heightened Senses that transferred directly to him (even when he's not wearing the armor). So to model that properly, he might have 30 points in one Heightened Senses (reflecting what his Armor ability has) and then another 30 for him personally. Does that 60 points of Heightened Senses end up violating the cap restriction that he's got?

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 16, 2017, 01:38

Quote from bkadams on April 15, 2017, 12:19
Per Jeff, Heightened senses are bought from scratch.

Ht. Sense: Full Sonar (10), Range (+5), Global (+10) = 25 CPs

BTW, I count 21 Heightened Senses listed, but sonar (despite the fact that it's listed in one of the examples of Heightened Senses) isn't one of them.

I suppose it's possible that this is intentional, since sonar could be broken down into what exactly it detects (shapes, motion, audible sounds?).

But that still raises the question of how exactly one models sonar (or something like it) if it detects multiple things? Do you have to build each one up from scratch (as you said above)? So if I want his (very typical) sonar to detect, say, both motion and sound, then I have to spend 50 CP for just that?

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

bkadams
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 472
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 16, 2017, 08:30

According to Wikipedia, "acoustic frequencies used in sonar systems vary from very low (infrasonic) to extremely high (ultrasonic)." I would build it like this:

Ht. Sense: Basic, Subsonic (5), Range, radiates (+5), Global (+10) = 20 CPs. Of course, for your superhero you might want to have a "super" version of sonar and make it have a Full sense for a total CP cost of 25.

Your question about caps on Heightened Senses is a good one and I'm not sure what the answer is. 😉

Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3194
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 16, 2017, 15:52

I was thinking of doing it similarly, but after reading that (I went to Wikipedia, too), I was wondering whether I should choose low (infrasonic) or high (ultrasonic). Ultra does sound cooler. 😉

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game

Alienist
Street-Level Hero
Posts: 22
Post Life Support
on: April 16, 2017, 16:15

Do I have this right, assuming the "no PR cost." part of the description is incorrect/irrelevant?
Life Support: Power instead of Charges (+0 CP) would be PR =3 (30- CP) or PR= 1 (35+ CP), with a duration equal to the original charge duration.

Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1176
Post Re: 2.9 General Questions
on: April 17, 2017, 01:07

Quote from Majestic on April 16, 2017, 01:19
...he might have 30 points in one Heightened Senses (reflecting what his Armor ability has) and then another 30 for him personally. Does that 60 points of Heightened Senses end up violating the cap restriction that he's got?

No, not as long as he doesn't exceed 30 CPs (or whatever his personal Ability Cap is) in any *particular* Sense. The Abilities have to stack in order to violate the Ability Cap.

-Jeff

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