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Author Topic: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
Majestic
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 3160
Post Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 18, 2017, 16:30

It's been mentioned elsewhere that 5 CPs isn't a huge deal, and doesn't usually make a huge amount of difference.

I've been playing around the character generation system, and the fist character I randomly rolled got Illusions. One modifier in particular - Modifier: Analytical Illusions - strikes me as being phenomenally good. For the same cost (5 CP) as being able to make the Illusion Check Difficulty go from +1 to -1, I can make it so that:

- Basic senses never see through them (instead of only on a critical success)
- Full senses requires a critical success (instead of just a success)
- Analytical senses needs an IN-based perception (instead of auto succeeding)

If I'm building an Illusions character (hero or villain), this 5 CP would be a no-brainer, as it seems WAY better than any other 5 CP I would spend on this ability.

V&V GM and player since 1982 (my current campaign is 22 years old); also run West End Games d6 Star Wars monthly, as well as the occasional The One Ring and Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game
Paragon
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 104
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 24, 2017, 18:29

I have to admit, as written, it seems like for routine use it would, if anything, pay to move down the difficulty of the check to a bonus to get the Analytical modifier; a small percentage of opponents would be much better at seeing through them, but it would make it so most opponents could see through them at all.

Also, is it me, or is it odd there's no cost in CP--just in PR--to cover multiple sense types?
Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1132
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 27, 2017, 11:27

Majestic is correct. Apparently this tidbit got overlooked during the final re-vamp of the senses rules. It should cost (+10) CPs. I'll update the Errata page to reflect this. Thanks guys!

-Jeff
Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1132
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 27, 2017, 11:33

Paragon said, "is it odd there's no cost in CP--just in PR--to cover multiple sense types?"

It's unusual, compared to other Abilities, but it's not a problem. You're welcome to buy down the PR cost by increasing the CP cost, if you like 🙂

-Jeff
Paragon
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 104
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 28, 2017, 11:14

There is that, I suppose.

Is even the 10 going to help much here, Jeff? It still seems like at some point its a much more attractive choice than increasing the save difficulty, since it'll pretty much make most targets not even do that.
Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1132
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 28, 2017, 18:28

It's commensurate with the cost the other guy paid to make their sense Analytical in the first place, so yeah. You're paying (10) extra CPs just in case you run up against a guy who's paid for that. *I* probably wouldn't bother.

-Jeff
Paragon
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 104
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 29, 2017, 11:10

I was thinking more of its effect on Full Senses when you do that. Lemme see if I can make an example, and maybe my point will be clearer.

You have Luminos, who, along with his Light Control, can make Visual Illusions. He wants these to be hard to see through. He can spend 10 points to apply a -3 penalty to see through them--or apply the Analytical modifier, which requires a crit (which is going to be significantly harder than the -3 basic roll to make) for most people (who just have Full Vision) and actually requires someone with Analytical Vision to have to make the roll. That seems like the much better deal; in fact its probably better against anyone without a really high IN or some kind of super-sense that gives them a bonus (and some of those would have things that bypassed it anyway) right up through -6 or so (which costs 17.5 CP or more) unless I'm misunderstanding process here.
Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1132
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 29, 2017, 13:31

Ack. NOW I get it, finally. I've been working on this game too long 😉

The problem appears to be that when we did that last-minute re-vamp of the Senses rules, the changes don't play nice with Illusions. Modifiers to the difficulty of a check to see through an Illusion are just not that relevant any more. SO: here are the changes to Illusions, to fix the problem (and incidentally, make 3.0 Illusions work a little bit more like 2.1 Illusions):

Illusions now have no range; they're centered on the character. There is no longer a CP cost for the difficulty of a save to see through them, nor does the area of effect default to 3". Instead, there is a base cost of (0) CPs for this Ability, and you must give it an Area Effect (p. 92).

Hope that helps!
-Jeff
Jeff
Administrator
Posts: 1132
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 29, 2017, 13:34

Incidentally, we're also halving the cost of making a sense Acute, to make that Modifier more relevant.

-Jeff
Paragon
Cosmic Superhero
Posts: 104
Post Re: Modifier: Analytical Illusions too good?
on: March 29, 2017, 17:53

Quote from Jeff on March 29, 2017, 13:34
Incidentally, we're also halving the cost of making a sense Acute, to make that Modifier more relevant.

-Jeff

Hey, I save a few more points on my Paragon build...
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