Damage Cap (and the...
 
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Damage Cap (and their interaction with Kicks and Pushing)  

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Majestic
(@majestic)
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23/06/2019 6:39 pm  

It just occurred to me, as I convert an older, high-level character, that the option of doing a Kick (rather than a Punch), which of course does +2 points of damage, would probably have to be factored into a character's Damage Cap.

I have to admit that I'd never considered this before, as I've built a number of characters and taken them right up to the maximum that the Damage Cap would allow (necessary to attempt to challenge my tough PCs).

But when you do this, especially with Abilities like Heightened Attack, it would be easy then for some (like this character I just worked on, who is really accurate) to simply take a -2 to their chance to hit, to get +2 to their damage.

Shoot, if the same character simply Pushed, then they do another +2 damage on top of that.

So potentially, they could be doing +4 damage beyond what their average listed damage is.

V&V GM and player since 1982, my current campaign is 29 years old


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Grackleflint
(@hireling)
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24/06/2019 1:09 am  

What a weird coincidence. Just the other day I made a character called Dropkick. She has Heightened Expertise (kicks only), Heightened Attack (kicks only), and Natural Weaponry (+4 To Hit and +4 Damage with Kicks). Her kicks have a base chance to hit of 25 or less and do 2d6+14 damage. You can further increase it with Pushing. Willpower 'Self-Control' would also make this deadly, and also break the damage cap.


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bkadams
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24/06/2019 9:14 am  

Personally, I don't include Kick damage as part of the damage cap because of the penalty to hit.


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bkadams
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24/06/2019 9:25 am  

And also because Kick is something all characters can do.


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Grackleflint
(@hireling)
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24/06/2019 9:39 am  

The penalty to hit is easily overcome. Also, I think Heightened Attack and Carrier Attack should count towards the damage cap. 


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bkadams
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24/06/2019 11:16 am  

Heightened Attack and Carrier attacks do count towards the damage cap.


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bkadams
(@bkadams)
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24/06/2019 11:27 am  

I do understand how a character with a specialty in kicking can exceed the damage cap with essentially no penalty as the to hit penalty is easily overcome. It's never come up in any of my campaigns but after thinking about it, I'd probably either include it in the damage cap or just not allow it as a maneuver.


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galderon
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24/06/2019 9:25 pm  

This thread is confusing me. Are you saying that your heroes' to-hit numbers are so high, and the defenses of their opponents are so low, that the -2 to hit while kicking is meaningless? What's the concern about exceeding the average damage cap?


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Majestic
(@majestic)
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26/06/2019 5:48 pm  

galderon, yes, the -2 to hit can become somewhat meaningless (it's quite easy, for instance, to make somebody who could kick and still have a base 20+ to hit).  The damage cap is there to keep characters from doing massive amounts of damage (potentially felling foes with a single hit), but when you build around it (and make somebody able to deliver a whallop of a blow), it just seems counter to the spirit of the whole damage cap idea.

I didn't realize Contact and Carrier attacks counted towards the damage cap, but I'm glad to see that they do. 

V&V GM and player since 1982, my current campaign is 29 years old


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galderon
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26/06/2019 7:59 pm  

I don't know that carrier and contact attacks count. The way I read the rules (and correct me if I'm missing something), they're really just a different kind of a multi-attack, since the damage is "rolled with" separately. I understand that the average damage cap is a good anchor to make sure damage doesn't grow without bounds, but IMO, I feel the few ways to exceed it aren't going to break the game (yet another way is if a really strong character throws a car at someone, with a -3 improvised weapon penalty). If a character regularly has a 20+ to hit, even with a kicking penalty, they would probably be more effective just multi-attacking.


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bkadams
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27/06/2019 11:47 am  

Just to be clear about Carrier and Contact attacks:

Carrier Attack: The target’s protection Abilities, rolling with damage, etc. all operate independently vs. the carrier attack and the carried attack. Carried attacks ignore all protections except Invulnerability and Adaptation if the carrier attack hits.

Contact Attack: The target’s protection Abilities, rolling with damage, etc. all operate independently vs. the main attack and the contact attack. Contact attacks are subject to the target’s applicable protection Abilities.

Carrier and Contact are two separate attacks with no penalty to hit, but each attack is limited by the Damage Cap.


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galderon
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27/06/2019 11:59 am  

Just to clarify what you're saying...are you stating that a carrier attack and a carried attack are each considered separate attacks, each one bound by the damage cap? Or are you stating that the damage from both should be combined, and considered a single attack with respect to the damage cap? If you're stating the latter, I don't know how the text you quoted leads to that conclusion at all.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I'd like to know how the reading of the rules is leading to the conclusions you're making.


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