Monkey House Games

I think the best option would be the following:

First, a V&V 3.0 Basic Rules Set that is very affordable - pretty much the first half of the current 2.0 - How to Create a Character, Powers, Training, Healing, Recovery, etc. with 20 pages of examples - 8 Heroes and 8 Villains with some Normal Competents. Sure you have the combat chart and other stuff, but keep it fairly lean. Price: around $10 - $12.

Then go for the 200 page hardback - same material PLUS Outer Space and Underwater rules, CHESS and other NPCs, How to Build a Supers HQ [as an NPC], DIY supervehicle creation, Inventing Rules guidelines, Chase Rules, Lethal Rules - basically all the stuff that is either optional or is a GM 'need to know' basis only, though it is NOT a DM Guide, and simply provides more coverage and options to the V&V Universe. Price: $25 - $30.

That's my vision of what would make me drop $25 for a V&V Hardback.

peace
justice

I would like "How To" Support..

So many gamers these days grew up being fed on "Look at this brilliant thing we wrote.." and don't always realize they can take a game and run wherever they want with it. Sure games tell them that, but I look at the sourcebook driven culture of detailing every corner of a game world, as to make it somewhat like putting on blinders.
Of course I play with people who've games almost as long as I have, all the way down to "Hey, look they're NEW and SHINY!"

Getting people to realize how to make it work is not always about rules, but sometimes about giving them advice, and tools they can choose to implement or not.

Having just got back into V&V, I looked for the Champions game at a LGS and about chocked a lung when I saw what a monstrosity it had grown into over the years. Masterminds and Mutants was less copious and while I'm sure each of these sytems have their strengths, I don't think they're enough to overcome their weaknesses.

As Jeff, Jack, Bill and others start t re-create the V&V universe I'm sure we'll see an expanded product line and if successful - how could it not be - the I'm sure there are rules and such they'll want to tweak. I'm sure 3.0 will arrive someday but I council patience lots of patience

Quote from dan2448 on November 29, 2010, 23:12
I totally agree that the "Hero System" has not merely evolved over the years, but has also just flat out grown and grown. I own every edition from the 2nd through the (current) 6th and that collection bears silent testament to the soul-destroying power of incremental growth. In fairness, however, the publishers do offer a 125 page "Basic Rulebook" for the 6th edition (called "Sidekick" in the 5th edition) catering to 'rules lite' fans. So there really is no requirement to buy into the full system in all its 1,000 page glory. And I appreciate that.

That Basic Rulebook is also a lie. It does not give full utility of the game. You truly need to buy that 1,000 pages to get total of that rules set.

With V&V, what you see is what you get. You get all of the rules in one small package. Sure the package could be a little bigger, with a few additional explanations. But what exists currently in that tiny rulebook is all you need. You won't kill your budget buying V&V. And honestly, I think that's of vital importance to protect.

I agree with much of what you are saying, Darrin-Kelley and Lord Inar. My only divergence would be that I don't think the 48 page 2.0 rules need any "protecting." Indeed, that rules set is among the heartiest weeds in the garden. "V&V" survived over 20 years, from 1987-2010, with absolutely no support whatsoever. And it's now available again as 2.1 from Monkey House Games, and 2.0 continues to be regularly available on eBay. We couldn't kill it if we tried.

On the other hand, keeping "V&V" a 'rules lite' game may well be a competitive advantage in a crowded (and tiny) market. I really don't know enough about the current competitive landscape to comment on that. Or maybe the (extreme) 'rules lite' approach is central to the brand identity of "V&V." I have to admit, though, that I've never seen it that way. V&V's 48 page rulebook was "standard" back when it was published in 1982, and several other games that had similarly sized rulebooks back then (including "D&D," "Gamma World" and "Champions") have evolved over time and continued to thrive (seemingly, anyway).

I'd like to see a significantly expanded, 'modern' version of "V&V" myself, when and if a 3rd edition is ever published. But that's largely because I already have a copy of 2.0 (well, two actually) faithfully preserved in a closet; readily accessible when needed but also protected against harm (child, dog, the elements) for posterity. ("Who's gonna want all this stuff?!?" my wife asks rhetorically from time-to-time.)

But don't get me wrong. I, too, think that 6th edition "Champions" has gone way, way too far.