Monkey House Games

Quote from Lionmane on June 29, 2012, 16:23
I don't understand this legal dispute. I could care less. Back in 2010, Jeff 'n Jack were stating categorically that they owned the publishing rights. So I just don't understand why we have such unreasonable delays and why they have this "cautious" thing going.

I sympathize with this sentiment, Lionmane (though perhaps a little less vigorously). I was surprised several times when future plans were announced here despite the fact that this legal dispute continued to simmer in the background. But there's a big difference between moving forward when FGU was a theoretical problem, and quite another to proceed forward when a federal lawsuit has been filed against MHG.

As best I can infer from a distance, Jeff and Jack believe that the original contract they entered into with FGU as teenagers over 30 years ago has been void for many years because the original FGU folded around 20 years ago. V&V is a property very near and dear to them, obviously, and they may be frustrated that, until a year or so ago, more-or-less nothing was done with it for 25 years. Instead, FGU merely sat on the property all that time, like a dragon jealously guarding its horde (from their perspective, anyway).

In contrast, I infer FGU may believe that: (i) they spent years promoting and publishing the V&V property in the 1980s, building equity in the brand all the while, and perhaps expending far more time and effort (and risking more money) than Jeff and Jack devoted to it after the original rules were published, when Jeff and Jack's subsequent involvement was periodic and limited, (ii) FGU profited little from all of this effort (and maybe is still stuck today with a bunch of unsold stock, to boot), and (iii) now Jeff and Jack seek to use what FGU may perceive as a 'legal technicality' to rip this property away from FGU now without compensation (perhaps also endangering FGU's rights to its other properties in the process).

I have no idea whether these inferences are really accurate. And perhaps more importantly, I have no idea how the law will treat this dispute ultimately. (I simply don't know any of the relevant facts that would enable me to make an informed judgement about that.) But if the above is accurate, I think it does explain why two parties would now engage in a potentially economically irrational "fight to the death" in federal court in Arizona, in which, from a financial standpoint, both parties are likely to lose in the end, no matter who prevails legally.

And I suspect that we, the fans, are likely to lose out either way. In other words, I'm pessimistic that this will be "lose-lose" for everyone, unfortunately.

Quote from Lionmane on June 29, 2012, 21:17
I'll purchase V&V products from ANY legal or illegal dealership!

I sympathize with your frustration, Lionmane. But I suspect you are making an exaggerated statement in this regard to underscore your point.

Intellectual property rights and the related protection of trademarks and brands are critical pillars of our modern society. Knowingly buying illegal knock-offs only pushes us further as a society to a time when no one could rely on, say, the purity of bottled water or baby food, or the safety and reliability of, among others, Ford, Honda, and Mercedes automobiles.

I lived and worked in China for much of the last decade and experienced first-hand the perpetual uncertainty (especially over food and water quality) that everyone must endure when, as a society, not many respect the sanctity of intellectual property and brands.

Quote from Justice on June 29, 2012, 18:16
Personally, I am ashamed that more V&V fans don't SHOW their loyalty by refusing to buy from FGU.

Quote from Tempest on June 29, 2012, 21:07
Agreed with completely, Justice. As a quick side-point, Bill Willingham has made it clear that he regards Jack and Jeff as the sole legal proprietors of V&V, and has requested that all fans refrain from purchasing FGU V&V material (obviously including Death Duel and Island of Dr. Apoc) until the legal issue has been called to a halt.

It is deeply regrettable that, in my opinion, a significant percentage of the RPGing population doesn't give a flat damn about ownership, creator's rights and corporate accountability: they just want the fricking game, and they'll use whatever resource is available to get hold of it - regardless of whether or not that resource is under investigation as an illegal dealership. I just wish, while the court grinds on, that FGU was required to note, with every V&V work they're advertising, the issue of the game's disputed ownership. At least then anyone buying this stuff from Scott Bizar would have the opportunity to make something vaguely resembling an informed decision.

Strongly agree with both of you.

There would be no V&V if not for Jeff Dee and Jack Herman. If FGU didn't publish it, someone else would have. FGU couldn't have created it by themselves. It's why publishers need contracts in the first place, to gain control over things they never created (like how DC stole Superman from two other teenagers, Siegel and Shuster, or how Marvel stole half the Marvel universe from Jack Kirby).
When a legal dispute arises, most publishers can outspend most creators in legal fees, and they know it.

So what's to be done about it?
1) Everyone who ever played V&V should boycott FGU, and their legion of scabs, just as a way to thank Jack and Jeff for having given us V&V in the first place. Where the hell is your loyalty? To the creators or to corporations?

2) Write Scott Bizar, and his legion of scabs, and tell them to leave Jack and Jeff alone!

3) Jack and Jeff need to set up a legal fund, as was already suggested, via Paypal or whatever where we can have the opportunity to thank them for decades of enjoyment. It's long overdue.

4) Support Jeff and Jack in other ways: Buy Monkey House product. Buy original art from Jeff. Support their Kickstarter initiatives. Who doesn't want a print of Jeff's re-creation of the Norse Mythos from frickin Dieties and Demigods fer cryin out loud?!

We've been pretending to be superheroes since we were kids. Now's our big chance to actually do something real. Get off the fence already. You know what's morally right here. Our heroes, Jeff and Jack, need help against FGU. Let's help them!

Just popping in my support for Jack & Jeff. I'm only interested in buying books from them or their company

As an aside, though...

Quote from Lionmane on July 4, 2012, 15:49
If you'll notice, there's a Most Wanted volume 1 on the table. Looks brand new, too. Several people have (proudly) stated they wouldn't purchase FGU's product ON THIS FORUM. Nothing was said to discourage or encourage this behavior, but then we see a recently purchased MW:1 on Jeff's table.

I have a copy that looks just like that... I bought it in the '80s and reference it quite often I just take good care of my books as well